Letters to the Editor 6/19

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Amidst the Horror, Goodness Still Shines
Editor, Times-Dispatch: When the United States Memorial Holocaust Museum opened in 1993, the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had not been bombed and 9/11 had not taken place. Terrorist acts had not come to America yet. However, when I went to visit the museum, I noticed something different from any other museum I had ever toured. There were traffic barriers out front, security cameras, metal detectors, X-ray machines, and armed guards. I thought to myself, why does this museum need so much security?

Part of the mission statement of the museum states the following objectives: "confront hatred, prevent genocide, promote human dignity, and strengthen democracy." All of these seem like worthwhile goals to me. Then the answer to my question became crystal clear. The museum documents the "Final Solution" to the Jewish question and there are still people out there who wish Hitler had been successful. They still deny facts and are motivated by blind hatred. Unfortunately, one of these people attacked the museum recently and killed guard Stephen Johns.

When the news broke, I was filled with anger toward the gunman. Then I looked at all the rescue workers and the police officers helping people. It reminded me of the room at the end of the museum tour that allows people to reflect on the horror they have seen while looking at the many monuments to our freedom in this wonderful country of ours. I decided then to shift my focus. The good in people will always outshine the evil in others.

Martin Plotkin.
Richmond.



Everyone Must Hold President to His Word
Editor, Times-Dispatch: Didn't President Barack Obama state that military spending would be included in the budget instead of being hidden by deceptive "supplementals"?

Republicans, Democrats, independents, and "we the people" need to hold him to his word on that matter.

Paul Magill Smith.
Richmond.



Torture Should Be Used in Extreme Cases
Editor, Times-Dispatch: In response to the letter by Tom Little, "Spy Pros Know Torture Doesn't Work," I could not disagree more. Torture does work. Governments have been using torture for centuries to maintain their power and find and destroy their enemies, both external and internal. One has only to look at Nazi Germany and the infamous Gestapo or the former Soviet Union with the NKVD and KGB.

The examples Little gave of people who did not use torture in eliciting information from the enemy are fine -- maybe. (For example, Orin Deforrest, the CIA agent, who did not use torture in Vietnam because his subjects knew that if they did not cooperate they would be turned over to the South Vietnamese who would.) There are plenty of cases where torture was used to make the "enemy" talk and the information was extremely valuable. As an aside, why would Abu Zubaydah be tortured if he was providing "good" information? It sounds suspiciously like the individual making the claim that Zubaydah was cooperating until torture was used has a personal agenda to serve in making a statement that cannot be confirmed. (We will not know the answer to this conundrum unless the transcripts and records of what he divulged are made available and include under what conditions he divulged the information.)

The point here is to try to end this political discussion on torture. This issue, like global warming, has become politicized and truth has consequently suffered. I am not advocating the widespread use of torture; it should and must be used in extreme cases. Does anyone believe the Obama administration -- or any administration -- would not use torture if it had someone in custody who it knew or suspected had information that would avert an attack within the U.S. that could result in thousands of deaths? Would anyone like to be the president who had to stand up in front of the nation and families of the dead and say he did not use every means to avert the attack?

Andrew M. Brantley.
Williamsburg.



Melting Pot Isn't Melting Anymore
Editor, Times-Dispatch: Whatever happened to the saying, "He's an American!"? I grew up thinking that people who lived in our country were Americans. My mother's family was German, back a generation or so, my father's was Scotch Irish, also back a generation or so. My husband's family was directly from Scotland, with other connections back further. It never occurred to us, or anyone I knew, to call our relatives German-Americans, Irish-Americans, or Scottish-Americans.

I grew up in New York City -- so, yes, I was living with a lot of different nationalities, and yes, they called each other funny names -- but we were all Americans. I have no idea what the background of FDR (the first president I remember) was, or most of the other public officials to whom I have been exposed since that time.

Why, all of a sudden (the past few years), have we become a country full of descriptive adjectives? American politicians are -- or should be -- Americans. The country they or their families came from is not why I elect or listen to them. The people they are, what they accomplish, what they believe, and what they are doing (or will do) for their country is why I put them in a position where they can make decisions for the rest of us. Am I missing something?

Pat Lorimer.
Richmond.

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Reader Reactions

Flag Comment Posted by thetruth on June 21, 2009 at 10:19 pm

“Isn’t it hilarious when one person whose mind is made up accuses another person whose mind is made up of being closed minded. That’s the kind of hypocrisy that NEVER fails to make me laugh.“....

Depends upon which mind is always made up. People like that have no self-purpose in seeking alternatives to what they already know, as they feel (not truly think) they already know what all is needed to know. Kinda like a fella looking into a mirror and telling the person they see, “I know water boarding is best means of interrogation, regardless if I (you too in the mirror) have name of even ONE expert CIA/FBI field interrogator who supports such; even one during years 2002-2005.  So, it is what I say it is.

Closed minds.  Feel the meaning?  Not laughable; not hilarious.  Very sad.

Me? I’m open minded.  So, please share with me, as I’ve shared truth with others, names of experts who said water boarding worked best and positive results of such; i.e. Eric Maddox who used verbal skills (not water boarding) to get info that lead to capture Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein?

Flag Comment Posted by greta on June 21, 2009 at 8:33 pm

Waterboarding-Aimed at simulating sensation of drowning.

Insect-Harmless insect to be placed with suspect in confinement box. Suspect to be told the insect would sting.

Walling-Detainee slammed repeatedly into false wall to create sound and shock.

Sleep Deprivation-Detainee shackled standing up. Used often, once for 180 hours.

No wonder these “methods” didn’t work. Well trained terrorists probably kept themselves up all night laughing.

Perhaps the interrorgators who used the “conversation and engagement” method simply told the detainees in “conversation” that either they cooperated or their families would be killed?
There was evidently a lot of chat about families and culture and stuff.
Just a thought…

Flag Comment Posted by Randy on June 21, 2009 at 7:20 pm

Isn’t it hilarious when one person whose mind is made up accuses another person whose mind is made up of being closed minded. That’s the kind of hypocrisy that NEVER fails to make me laugh.

Flag Comment Posted by thetruth on June 21, 2009 at 5:26 pm

Don’t matter if “me and Randy” are right or wrong.  Water boarding is OUT and continued use of Informed Interrogation Approach is IN.  The CIA & FBI will continue with the proven technique, presented in earlier posts and as deemed by several experts as best proven technique.

As to oughta change a mind, I could give a do-do about changing a closed mind that will to seek the truth.

Flag Comment Posted by mrright on June 21, 2009 at 3:58 pm

Cowards and liars are your words,truth.
I simply stated the context of your ‘sources’.Why don’t you go ahead and quote Dick Durbin or Patrick Leahy.That oughta change my mind,
The real conundrum is if me and Randy are right and you’re wrong we’re gonna get hit again.I hope you’re right…

Flag Comment Posted by studebaker on June 21, 2009 at 3:01 am

“I’m pretty hard pressed to come up with classified documents as my top secret clearance expired in 1991.”  Posted by ( Randy )

When I was in the Navy, there was a joke that went around about guys who told everyone they had top secret clearance—that they couldn’t keep a secret.

Flag Comment Posted by thetruth on June 20, 2009 at 11:28 pm

“All the time - YOU have not produced any superior interrogation techniques to water boarding.  Nice try.”  Question is:  What is Randy trying?

“Informed Interrogation Approach”. 

THAT is the proven CIA/FBI technique and verified by several named expert interrogators.  Is there a brick wall between reading and comprehending what is read?

Randy says who will come out under current administration and say water boarding is better? Back-up to years 2002-2006, Randy.  The Obama administration started only 5 months ago.  What CIA/FBI field interrogator “came out and quoted water boarding was better than decades of CIA/FBI technique of “Informed Interrogation Approach” during years before Obama was elected Nov 4, like years 2002-06? After all, Cheney/Bush authorized water boarding.  So, during those years interrogators must have felt safe high authorization.  IF water boarding was pushed by Cheney, approved by Cheney, even via contractors; surely, there were interrogators during such time that are “on the record”?  Name one.  Surely there is one during those years back before Obama, even one who served, water boarded folks under authority of Cheney, and retired before Obama?  Most of those I’ve mentioned were pre-Obama. 

Randy, can you do it? 

Forget it.  I thought the guy had some thought.

Flag Comment Posted by Randy on June 20, 2009 at 10:26 pm

I did mention VP Dick Cheney, by the way. Under the current administration, who is going to come out and say waterboarding is the preferred method? Who wants to risk being prosecuted?

I did note that there are documents that support Cheney’s position that the Obama administration will not declassify - if the documents supported Obama’s position, they’d have been declassified in a heart beat.

I never claimed to have any FBI/CIA names - I do have the word of the VP that it worked and that works for me. The fact that Obama won’t declassify the documents Cheney refers to says that Cheney’s right.

All the time - YOU have not produced any superior interrogation techniques to waterboarding.

Nice try.

Flag Comment Posted by Randy on June 20, 2009 at 10:21 pm

It is closed and don’t call me surely.

...couldn’t help it.

Flag Comment Posted by thetruth on June 20, 2009 at 8:56 pm

No. Surely you recognize; it is closed.

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