CORRESPONDENT OF THE DAY
U.S. Isn't Getting Health Care It Pays For
Editor, Times-Dispatch: The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that the United States spends 15.3 percent of its gross domestic product on health care, or $6,714 per capita annually. Compare that to the United Kingdom, which spends 8.4 percent of GDP ($2,784 per capita), or Canada, which spends 10 percent of GDP ($3,672 per capita), and one quickly realizes that Americans are not getting what they pay for.
Although the U.S. spends more in terms of both GDP and real dollars, Americans born today have a shorter life expectancy than our British and Canadian friends as well as an obesity rate 10 percentage points higher than the British and more than 15 percentage points higher than the Canadians.
Perhaps the greatest tragedy is that there are 46 million uninsured Americans, according to the Robert Woods Johnson Foundation's project known as "Cover the Uninsured." These people can obtain care only when their health is at great risk, and it is the rest of us who are left to pay their often expensive bills. In contrast, there are no uninsured Britons or Canadians and they pay even less than we do for results that are equal to or better than our own. Are we really getting what we pay for?
Jonathan F. Wyss.
Richmond.
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Reader Reactions
“the fact remains that Americans are not getting what they pay for when it comes to healthcare.“
Incorrect. The opinion because you want to believe it is that we are not. The fact is that we are. Just whom do you think pays for the European-style nanny state health system? The Europeans do thru high taxes. They do thru quotas on treatments. They do on delays of weeks and months for even routine care. They do by buying their own private insurance so that they don’t have to be at the whims of bureaucrats. The Canadians make a big thing of low cost for medicine. Who pays for the extimated $800 million it costs to develop, test, and market a successful drug? The money must come from somewhere. It comes from those of all of us who must pay the higher cost.
“49% of the uninsured are between the ages of 25 and 44. These are people in their prime working years. Do you truly believe that there are people who would go without health insurance, given the inexorbitant costs of healthcare? If you do, I have some land I want to sell you.“
No thanks. You are gullible enough for the both of us.
“The Woods Foundation most certainly does speak of the prohibitive cost of healthcare and highlights that people cannot afford it. It is the very heart of the problem. You need to read more of the site.“
Yet it does not say what you claim. That 46 million cannot afford health care. It says that there are 46 million that go uncovered for a variety of reason, the smallest of which is cost. Perhaps it is you whp needs to read the site for what it says, not for what you want it to say.
Indeed we have several agencies which could be responsible for properly administrating health care reform, but there is no impetus for change. The money from the drop in prices would have to come from somewhere. Will it be from insurance companies? Will it be from the care providers? I honestly am having a hard time coming up with a plausible transition to a “truth in medical care” system.
I don’t really care if an existing agency or a new agency takes on the task; that is largely inconsequential. I have yet to hear of a solid plan for the details of such a transition. I don’t have my mind made up by any means on the issue… I know where we are and I know where I would like us to be, but I’m having a hard time conceiving a practical way to make it happen.
... and on another note, in all seriousness, Jer. I think you’d find we have more in common than you might believe. I know you have a strong dislike for “liberalism”, but casting about labels like that doesn’t contribute to understanding one another. I don’t think that anyone’s conscious intention in this nation is to control someone else, however through intolerance and greed, it comes about. This is not endemic to either socialist or capitalist ideologies.
Socialism is a given aspect of any successful society, by definition. On some level, we have to work together to solve problems. As socialist as it is, I think it is necessary in order for us to be a strong nation. If you think about it, the period in which we demonstrated the greatest socialist tendencies as a nation was during the 2nd World War. It was one of our nation’s finer moments in history as we all came together to triumph over adversity. I think we need a little more of that today. Less demonization of each other through exaggerated labels and more of a “let’s get things done!“ attitude. What do you say?
SSN,
While I apologize for mischaracterizing your argument, the fact remains that Americans are not getting what they pay for when it comes to healthcare.
I have read your sources and others of their ilk. What is consistently forgotten is that the ideas that originate from them will consistently leave millions behind. These people are often not left behind by choice.
49% of the uninsured are between the ages of 25 and 44. These are people in their prime working years. Do you truly believe that there are people who would go without health insurance, given the inexorbitant costs of healthcare? If you do, I have some land I want to sell you.
The Woods Foundation most certainly does speak of the prohibitive cost of healthcare and highlights that people cannot afford it. It is the very heart of the problem. You need to read more of the site.
The reason why we are left with the bill is because people cannot afford insurance. Thus, they do not go to the hospital until they are very, very ill. The rest of us are left with the bill.
What would you propose as a solution?
12steprevenge the world must be becoming a better place if we are close to argreeing.
Let’s take this one step further and instead of creating a nationl government run health care program we have our government create a health regulation agency and have them enforce the laws on the books. I’m sorry we already have several such agencies with in our bloated government. By regulating the health care industry such that it creates lower prices and more affordable health care several things might happen.
1. Taxes would not have to be increased to pay for an every growing government agency and costs could be controlled.
2. prices would come down so that people would not have to mortage their houses to pay to stay alive.
3. Insurance rates could be dropped to allow more people to afford their services.
4. Drug and procedure prices could be adjusted to reflect the actual cost instead of all this inflated cost for R&D that is payed for by the government anyway.
5. Citizens would regain control of their health and medical procedures/information to where they would know what is going on.
6. Less fraud and misuse of the system
All this by having CURRENT government agencies do their job and at a cost affordable by all. Wonder if that would work. Part of the cost is due to the uninsured but the majority is do to the burgeoning bureaucracy that is in the pocket of the medical industry and the liberal community that wants to control everyday lives of all citizens. In other word the beginning of all out socializism in this country.
Let us make it work the way it was intended to and not the way it has become.
“Posted by ( wyssjf ) on June 05, 2009 at 1:09 pm
SSN,
Please cite your source before making such claims that most of the 46 million uninsured are illegal immigrants. I cited mine as the Robert Woods Johnson Foundation. What is yours?“
Well now, let’s just see how many times you are wrong shall we?
1) Did I say “most”? No.
“Who are these 46 million? A large part are illegals”
2) Did you give your source? No.
Because your initial letter even says “Perhaps the greatest tragedy is that there are 46 million uninsured Americans, according to the Robert Woods Johnson Foundation’s project known as “Cover the Uninsured.“
It says nothing about “can’t afford”. Likewise neither does the Woods Foundation. It says as I did ... without, nothing more.
As for my source. Which by the way is readily available just by looking for other than what you prefer.
http://rsc.tomprice.house.gov/UploadedFiles/PB_082608_Uninsured Analysis.pdf
Or;
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2009/apr/02/obamas-deceptive-health-plan/
Or;
There’s more. Care to look for yourself?
I confess need for my correction.
The 46 million # includes citizens & 9.7 non-citizens, but not illegals. There are many non-citizens who work in America and pay taxes on incomes earned here. My last manager before I retired was from Toronto. He and family moved to our hdqts in the U.S. five yrs ago, but never applied for citizenship, preferring to maintain Canadian citizenship, but count in Census. Years ago I served with a German in our Army. He was not a U.S. citizen, but worked in Baltimore. After 18 mos here, was drafted for 2 yrs. Could have said NO, but would have had to leave. So, he was a non-U.S. citizen in U.S. Army for 2 yrs, which later helped in his gaining U.S. citizenship. Ditto for another guy from Budapest, Hungary who fought the Russians in their revolt of 1956. Both non-citizens, but U.S. soldiers, counted in Census.
Hey jer1234,
You’re right,the costs do go unnoticed by the consumer until its too late.I am self employed and thats why I went to an HSA 4 yrs ago instead of an HMO.I have a high deductible($3000) and I pay for most of my services until I reach the deductible and then Anthem pays 100%.I am blessed with good health(so far) and I rarely have ‘gone over.‘But even when I pay I still get the insurance companies discount.I pick my own doctor/dentist and I always compare and question pricing and the need for certain recommended services.In four years my premium has gone up $14.00 per month and I’m no spring chicken.I f everybody cared and compared fees prices and maybe evn premiums would come down thru market forces vs gov’t control.
The only thing that ticks me of is why do the insurance companies get a better price on a procedure than an individual.Isn’t that backwards?
“ I would hate to have the government dictate that I have to maintain some other level of insurance.. or pick up the tab for someone else. There also are people out there w/no insurance and they don’t WANT to buy it.. rather have an ipod.“
The thing with our current situation is that we ARE picking up the tab for those people choose to buy iPods over health insurance. Those people don’t just go without health care, they go to public hospitals where they must treat everyone, insured or not. Who pays for their ambulance rides? Who pays for their $20 dose of ibuprofen? Who pays for the billing and collections which never turn up any money? It all passes down the line to our wallets eventually.
The outrageous prices of health care are fueled by the cost of treating the uninsured. I’m afraid that there’s no easy solution. Jer, the system which you described is exactly what I envision. The price of medical care in our country is ridiculous and far beyond reasonable. Trouble is, who’s going to enforce reasonability? As it is, there is no incentive for the health care industry to reform as there is so much money being generated and the insurance companies don’t mind because they’ve got the docs over a barrel and are taking them (and the public) for all they can.
The health care industry will not change willingly, the insurance companies won’t change willingly… without government intervention on some level I find it hard to see how this will be accomplished. I am open to suggestions, though.
For the record I didn’t say our healthcare system was flawless.But it is a fact people come here from all corners of the globe access our healthcare system,do they not ?
I just don’t want government controlled healthcare which is what Obama is trying to impose.There is NO FREE RIDE unless you’re an illegal.
Can anyone name one government program thats run effectively besides our military ... and look how expensive that is.
Our health care may be expensive,too but it IS the best which is what the letter write was debating.
Ok…
http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf
This is directly from the census.. shows clearly that of the 46 million number 9.7 were not a citizen. Also backs up the numbers of people and what they earned.
I wish I could give you a solution. There surely are people who fall through the cracks.. There are also people who shouldn’t be entitled to “free” healthcare (illegals). There are also people on that listing that probably already do qualify for existing programs. There are also surely a lot of people who would rather “roll the dice” and not pay for it..(young.. healthy..). So.. how many of the 46M are truly at risk and do we need to “fix”? I honestly can’t tell you.. All I know is that if you are ill or injured, you will be treated on some basic level. That is certainly better than some places. I personally have a high deduct plan through my job (one of many options.. i have a good job/employer). I would hate to have the government dictate that I have to maintain some other level of insurance.. or pick up the tab for someone else. There also are people out there w/no insurance and they don’t WANT to buy it.. rather have an ipod.
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